Posts by 2escaped lifers

Talked to my dad Monday night (while delivering to him Albertville's copy of the letter ) and asked him if all of this would affect our working relationship too. See, he is a draftsman that does work for me sometimes at my job, a Project Manager for a construction company. He said, "of course". He would finish up what contracts he was working on currently, but would not accept any further work from us (me). Oh well, his loss....

Talked to my Mom this morning. She was lamenting the fact that we were breaking their hearts, because we were so "viciously angry", "attacking" and "threatening" and "fighting against" Jehovah's Organization. I pressed her for what on earth she was talking about, since she had never used these terms before, and finally found out that dad had told her about the letter. I thought this judicial stuff was supposed to be confidential!?!?!?!?

Anyway, thanks to all of you for caring and listening.

Best regards,

Brandon Bartlett

28

Just lost our parents... Part 2

by 2escaped lifers in

jw
friends

for part 1, see : http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/62447/1.ashx .

well, my dad did his "elder" duty and called the elders in whose territory we now live.

two of them came by to see us this past saturday morning.

2escaped lifers

December 6, 2003

Brandon and Stephanie Bartlett

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Body of Elders

Scottsboro Congregation of Jehovah?s Witnesses

Dear Sirs:

This letter is in response to the visit Chris Rodgers and Bob Hanford paid to our home this morning. First, let me make clear that this is NOT a letter of Disassociation. We simply feel that certain issues discussed briefly this morning need some clarification, and that this would best be accomplished in writing.

As you are well aware, we have lived in the Scottsboro Congregation?s territory for more than a year now. This has been common knowledge, especially since our family has been so well known to the majority of the members of the Scottsboro Congregation for so many years. I?ve had friends in your congregation since my early teens, I?ve worked with many of you at the Quick Build projects for two decades, and I have even given Public Talks at your Hall.

Therefore, given the depth of our past relationship, both spiritual and personal, we assumed when we first moved to town that it would not be long before we received a ?shepherding call?, or at least a ?welcome? visit. Sadly, all we have received to date is the visit this morning, which, as Chris so plainly put it, was ?not to change our minds? about how we feel now about the ?Organization?, but to ask us to write a letter of Disassociation. In addition to this primary objective, however, it was evident by the number and type of questions we were asked by these two ?brothers?, that there was a secondary objective as well. This was to ascertain if we had been involved in any ?wrongdoing? which might involve a ?Disfellowshipping? offense.

The nature of the ?questioning? was more like two police officers questioning criminal suspects, who don?t know they are suspects yet. The questions were slyly worded and very leading, though masked in a cordial conversational tone.

THIS WAS, AND IS, VERY OFFENSIVE TO US. If you wanted to know if we had done anything of a nature worthy of ?Disfellowshipping?, all you had to do was ask clearly. We were completely honest and forthright with all of our answers, and we would have answered these questions truthfully as well. The honest truth is that we are the same people as before, with the same moral and ethical standards as we?ve always had. We don?t need you or an ?Organization? to tell us that certain things are just plain wrong in a civilized human society. Just because we don?t attend the Kingdom Hall anymore doesn?t mean that we are now going to dive into a ?debauched? life of adultery, sex orgies, drunken revelries, and drug addiction or crime.

We are very offended because, first, you ignore us when we move to town and make no effort to ?help? us spiritually. Then, secondly, you send these two ?brothers? to our house to find evidence of ?wrongdoing? on which you could accuse us and then ?disfellowship? us. All of this, simply because we were honest in telling our parents, and now you, that we simply no longer believe Jehovah?s Witnesses have ?THE TRUTH?. Are you that afraid of us, just because we disagree with you?

Your conduct, as a body and as individuals, is less than admirable, and belies your claim to be truly loving, caring, and compassionate ?shepherds? of the flock. Yet, this no longer surprises us, for we have seen and experienced so much hypocrisy in this ?Organization? over the years. It only saddens us now, that you are so indoctrinated that you can?t distinguish sincerity from hypocrisy any longer, nor can you tolerate any ?independent thinking? among your members. ?Whatever happened to exercising one?s ?Bible Trained Christian Conscience? in making decisions, rather than policed conformance to the ?Governing Body?s? current and latest interpretation of scripture? or else face ?cutting off?, or your own independently coined word, ?disfellowshiping? (Interestingly, as you know, the words ?disfellowship? and ?disassociate? do not even appear in the Bible, much like the word ?Trinity?).

Another point we wish to make very clear is this: Bxxxxx Xxxxxxxx had nothing to do with our thought processes or decisions about our beliefs. I only bring this up because Chris asked us, rather out of the conversation?s context, if we had spoken with Bxxxx lately. Of course, I answered that I had just recently contacted Bxxxx again, because I had. But this contact was some time after we had already made our decisions about changing our beliefs. Until my brief contact with Bxxxx a couple weeks ago, just to catch up with an old friend and see how he was doing, I had not spoken with him in about two years. SO, AGAIN, XXXXX XXXXXXXX HAS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH OUR VIEWS ABOUT JEHOVAH?S WITNESSES. As a matter of fact, he was quite shocked to learn about our current views. So, please, if you have any common decency left in you at all, do not use any of this as ?ammunition? against Bxxxxx. He knows nothing of what we?ve been through or what we believe now and why, other than our brief ?catch up? conversation and visit a couple weeks ago.

Please pay very careful attention to the following:

As you have no evidence of any ?disfellowshipable? activity on our part (because there is none), YOU WILL NOT PUBLICLY ANNOUNCE ANYTHING DERROGATORY ABOUT ANY OF US, AT ANY CONGREGATION MEETING AT ANY KINGDOM HALL.

We will not allow our reputation in the community in general to be slandered in any way by you. Since the current instructions on announcing a disfellowshipping require that you NOT announce the nature of the offense, any announcement about us would naturally fuel the ?rumor mill? and cause others, both within the congregation and without, to speculate about what immoral or ?unrighteous? conduct had led to our being expelled from the congregation. As you well know, your only accusation against us is that we simply no longer believe the same as you do.

I really hate to have to take these steps, for I bear no malice against any of you personally, but I feel I must make the following clear to you as well, in order to protect our reputation in the community:

IF YOU DO MAKE ANY DERROGATORY ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT US, AT ALL, WE WILL SUE THE BODY OF ELDERS AS A GROUP, AND EACH OF YOU INDIVIDUALLY, FOR LIBEL AND SLANDER.

We also have no intention of writing an official letter of ?disassociation?. Once we uncovered the truth behind ?The Truth?, namely that it is just not true, we realized that in essence our baptisms were meaningless, therefore we view them as null and void. You have no authority over us, nor do we have any obligation to conform to your man-made rules and regulations.

In conclusion, we would like to reiterate that we bear no ill will towards any of you, and our lives and our home will always be open to you. If you, or individual members of the congregation, decide to shun us, understand that it will be entirely one-sided shunning. We will always appreciate and honor the friendships that we made while being Jehovah?s Witnesses, as we view many of you as friends. We love you, and will always be there for you, with a smile, a warm greeting, or assistance ? whatever is required.

One last item ? Please direct all future correspondence on these matters to us in writing. No phone calls or visits, please.

Cordially,

Brandon and Stephanie Bartlett

cc: Body of Elders ? Albertville Congregation of Jehovah?s Witnesses

Bxxxx Xxxxxxxxxx (simply out of courtesy because he is mentioned)

************************************END OF LETTER

28

Just lost our parents... Part 2

by 2escaped lifers in

jw
friends

for part 1, see : http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/62447/1.ashx .

well, my dad did his "elder" duty and called the elders in whose territory we now live.

two of them came by to see us this past saturday morning.

2escaped lifers

Greetings all,

for part 1, see : http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/62447/1.ashx

Well, my dad did his "Elder" duty and called the elders in whose territory we now live. Two of them came by to see us this past Saturday morning. Interestingly, they plainly stated that they weren't there to change our minds, but to verify if what they had heard (namely, that we no longer wanted to be JW's) was true, and if so, would we write a letter of disassociation.

Then they start asking all these questions about what we've been doing, who we've been seeing and talking to, and if I've had a drinking problem. Now, this last part is remarkable for two reasons: 1) I have never been much of a drinker, and have an allergy to brewers yeast so I can't drink beer at all, and 2) the brother asking me this was a friend of mine as a teen and was intoxicated so often as we were teens and early 20's that I can't count them.

All in all, a very offensive meeting. After they left, my wife and I wrote the following letter:

48

Just lost our parents....

by 2escaped lifers in

jw
friends

well, the shunning begins.

we finally had "the" discussion with my parents, that we no longer consider ourselves jw's, and a little bit of why we felt that way.

of course, "dad the elder and po" and mom the pioneer dutifully informed us that not only will they be "loyal to the organization" and shun us completely, but that he would immediately let the other elders know, so that proper judicial action could be taken.. it was a heart wrenching discussion, with all of us, including my two young boys (9 and 10) all balling our eyes out.

2escaped lifers

Greetings again,

Thank you so much, everyone!!!!!!!! For your empathy, your kind words of comfort and advice!!!

We are looking forward to seeing the looks on the elders' faces when we tell them that since we no longer consider ourselves Jehovah's Witnesses, and that since the Org is not what it claims to be, nor has the authority it claims to have, we consider our baptism null and void and really have no reason to even discuss anything with them - much less attend any committee meeting or write any official disassociation letter or such. We are also considering, depending upon their reaction to this, on following the advice given earlier in this thread to threaten them with libel and slander lawsuits if anything is publicly announced about us.

An update on the parents thing: My wife's parents (her mom was the one that yelled at her on the phone about the kids dying at the BIG "A") have said that regardless of whether we are disfellowshipped or not, they now consider us "Bad Associations" TM and will have little or nothing to do with us any longer. Of course, a few months from now, I guarantee they will be on the platform at an assembly being praised as righteous martyrs for their faithfulness to the Org for dutifully shunning their wicked apostate children. PUKE!!!!!!!!

My parents, who said that we were apostates now and that they would shun us, are actually starting to back pedal on that and are trying to find a loophole to keep association open with us. My mom tried to talk me into rewording what we told them the other night, so that it wouldn't sound so apostate. MOM = "We already knew, because you quit going to the meetings, that you didn't believe it anymore. Why did you have to say that you wanted no association with it anymore - that was dissassocation."

Maybe, if they can perform the feats of logic to believe some of the WT stuff, maybe they can manipulate it in their own minds to associate with us - who knows?

Thanks again for all the understanding and kindness!!!!!!!

Brandon

48

Just lost our parents....

by 2escaped lifers in

jw
friends

well, the shunning begins.

we finally had "the" discussion with my parents, that we no longer consider ourselves jw's, and a little bit of why we felt that way.

of course, "dad the elder and po" and mom the pioneer dutifully informed us that not only will they be "loyal to the organization" and shun us completely, but that he would immediately let the other elders know, so that proper judicial action could be taken.. it was a heart wrenching discussion, with all of us, including my two young boys (9 and 10) all balling our eyes out.

2escaped lifers

((((((ALL of YOU!!!)))))) Thank you all so much for your kind words and so much encouragement!!!! We also want to thank you all for your advice and support. It truly helps to know that we're NOT alone even though both sets of our parents practically screamed this at us.A friend of mine said just don't tell them because you'll be cut off ."You don't know what it's like," she said. Her mother died last year and she wishes for more time with her. I know I shouldn't say this but it would be less painful to know that your mother died loving you than to never talk to them again, and to know that they are SHUTTING OFF their love for you because of a rule they have to follow. At least Brandon's parents did cry and tell him that they loved him, but they had to "be faithful to jehovah." He asked them if they believed that they were truly being faithful to Jehovah, or were they being faithful to the organization. You can guess the response. Anyway, the wave of tears is back. Thank you all again, Stephanie and Brandon

48

Just lost our parents....

by 2escaped lifers in

jw
friends

well, the shunning begins.

we finally had "the" discussion with my parents, that we no longer consider ourselves jw's, and a little bit of why we felt that way.

of course, "dad the elder and po" and mom the pioneer dutifully informed us that not only will they be "loyal to the organization" and shun us completely, but that he would immediately let the other elders know, so that proper judicial action could be taken.. it was a heart wrenching discussion, with all of us, including my two young boys (9 and 10) all balling our eyes out.

2escaped lifers

Greetings,

Well, the shunning begins. We finally had "THE" discussion with my parents, that we no longer consider ourselves JW's, and a little bit of why we felt that way. Of course, "dad the elder and PO" and mom the pioneer dutifully informed us that not only will they be "loyal to the organization" and shun us completely, but that he would immediately let the other elders know, so that proper judicial action could be taken.

It was a heart wrenching discussion, with all of us, including my two young boys (9 and 10) all balling our eyes out. We told my parents that we loved them, and would always love them. We said that our house will always be open to them, no matter what. They, of course, said that WE were forcing them to shun us, that it was our decision to break up the family. Unbelievable, isn't it. I told them that saying that was like a terrorist telling an uncooperative hostage that it is his/her fault that the terrorist has to kill other hostages. They didn't get it, the mind control is too strong in them (they've been active JW's since the 50's).

Anyway, even though we knew this was coming and could predict their response, it is still very difficult to know that they will never talk to us again or acknowledge our presenece even if we meet them in the aisle at Wal Mart. My extended family is also active in the cult, so soon they will follow suit and shun as well. My wife's parents (also "pillars" of the congregation) will inform us today of their decision whether or not to shun us. We all know what the answer will be, so her parents and extended family will be "dead" to us shortly as well.

I don't have time to go into details here, but I'll post more on our discussions with them and the coming JC crap shortly.

Best regards to all here,

Brandon

14

Are the witnesses tight?

by stillajwexelder in

jw
friends

are jehovah?s witnesses tight?

a presiding overseer stated that from the platform in the last 18 months.

there was a thread recently where one poster stated that at district conventions pioneers actually gave literature as a tip to the waitress at a place where they were dining -- no doubt counting their time also.

2escaped lifers

Back in the 50's, when the big Yankee Stadium conventions were being held, and the JW's would set up big "tent cities", there was a joke that when the Witnesses visited the city, they brought with them a $10 dollar bill and the 10 Commandments, and didn't break either one.

Of course, it could also be that most witnesses are at the bottom of the economic ladder, because a good career is a "materialistic" goal.

Brandon

14

Crisis of Conscience availabitity

by Frantic in

jw
friends

yes a newbie!

probably been asked one to many times, nonetheless, whats the crisis of conscience availibility?.

can most of u borrow it from the public library?

2escaped lifers

Excellent book. As far as helping, it simply reinforced what I already knew. I knew all the main players in Gadsden, Alabama, where Ray Franz (the author) was disfellowshipped. You wouldn't believe the many false stories that were circulated among the Witnesses back then about the Gregersons and Ray. But they had to cover their butts somehow.

If you are not familiar with the inner workings at "headquarters", it will be a very enlightening read.

Best regards,

Brandon

20

Your JW / ex-JW Experiences Needed - PLEASE!

by 2escaped lifers in

for a new book project..... my wife and i are putting together a book project that will describe in detail the actual practical effects of wtbts beliefs and doctrines on the daily lives of average jw's.

there are currently books out there that describe the operation of the organization at the top levels (e.g.

crisis of conscience), books that take issue with jw doctrine and/or false predictions, and books about cults in general that mention jw's among other cultish organizations.

2escaped lifers

bttt